01
作为女性领导，有什么特殊经历想分享？
What lessons and experiences can you share as a female leader?
Irene：最让我难忘的一段经历是，当时我还在加拿大工作，那是我第一次作为技术支持的角色去解决问题。那个工作环境几乎是没有女性的，因为那里是一个伐木场，是一个男性占更多主导的地方。但我在那里工作期间得到了很多帮助，我自己感觉很重要的一点是你要认清自己是谁，以及女性力量是我们的优势之一。
I was, at one point, living in Canada, and it was my first time going out into the field to resolve an issue as a technical service personnel. Not many women were there because it’s a lumber yard, and it’s a very male-dominated workspace. I also spent a lot of time in Canada when I was much younger. So the most important thing for me is femininity. That’s who we are as women and it is one of our strengths.
02
在你的职业生涯中，有谁能给予你启迪吗？
Throughout your career, who were your biggest inspirations?
Irene：提到这个问题，我想到的是两面，那些启迪我的部分，和无法启迪我的部分。能启迪我的人往往都非常真实，他们非常明确地知道自己是谁，想要什么，以及他们会在过程中给予你帮助。另一方面，我们也会看到一些人拼命去迎合，或者“表现得像男性”，觉得这样才能融入男性的世界，这些并不值得提倡。
There are two sides to the coin when I think about inspirational figures: those that inspire me and those that do not. People who inspire me are the ones who are authentic. They are genuine in who they are, who they want to be and they help you along the process. On the other hand, it’s disappointing to see people who behave in certain ways or adopt certain tendencies just to ‘fit in’ and ‘act like a man’, just because they feel that that is how they break into a man’s world.
03
作为管理者，你如何为你的组织定调？
As a leader in your business, how do you set the tone for the team?
Irene：我的性格比较开放和直接，所以无论何时，我觉得我在团队中的角色都不单是一个领导者，而是我们是一个团队，所以我更倾向于“我们”而不是“我”。当我们以团队的方式工作，我们就好像是共同上紧了发条，共进退。这是我与我的团队分享的一个很重要的概念。
I am a very open person. I am very direct. That’s my character. So whenever I work with my team, it’s not about me being the supervisor — it’s about us. I believe that when it is about us, then we can start to see how things would work as a team. Once everyone believes in the ‘we’, everything sort of works, like clockwork. That’s what I share with the entire team, even though most of mine are men.
04
作为女领导，工作中有遇到过阻碍吗？
Over the years, have you encountered any barriers to your success or growth as a female leader?
Irene：无论是否有意，生活和工作中都有很多的问题和阻碍。总的来说，我觉得工作了那么多年，真正的阻碍其实都是来自我自己，因为有很多时候会感情用事，它会影响你的判断。我觉得与其说是冲破阻碍，不如说是寻找更好的方式绕道而行，我在生活和工作里经常需要在面对阻碍的时候学会理智以及如何绕过它们。
There are always going to be barriers, be it intentional or unintentional. And it is not just in my career, but everyday life as well. Ultimately, after so many years in the working world, the real barrier is actually me, because there’s so much emotion about where you want to go, they actually cloud your judgment. I’ve learnt that, instead of trying so hard to knock down barriers, you could find a better way by walking around it. I’ve done a lot of that in my life and I’ve started to learn.
05
在合作过的领导中，你最欣赏哪些特征？
Irene：我很幸运遇到过很多领导者。在我现在的公司，管理层比较核心的价值在于员工关怀，这不仅是身心健康层面的，还包括对员工个人职业发展的培养。其实口头上说说核心价值很容易，但要在组织中真正执行和实现很难。我们需要时间去建立这种文化。
除了我刚才提到的真实性，我觉得简化思维也常被忽视，作为一个女性领导者，我们比较容易想太多，我经常会在决定后思考其背后的逻辑，然后发现其实没那么复杂，所以我觉得，能做到简单直接也很重要。
I’ve been very fortunate to see an array of leaders. Tronox is a mining organisation and the leader built a set of core values around taking care of its people. Whether it’s from a safety perspective or grooming individuals through their career paths. Ultimately, it is easy to create core values and stick them on walls. But it does not mean that it’s going to be lived throughout the entire organisation. It takes time to build this culture, and I believe that culture has been embedded in Tronox for some time now.
As for specific traits, aside from authenticity, simplicity is often underrated. Sometimes, as women, we overthink, and part of that is because of who we are. I often go back to the facts and the logic behind certain decisions, and I realise that it’s actually not that complicated. So simplicity, too, is a characteristic that I do admire very much.
06
你如何建立自信心？
Irene：我小的时候很内向，直到20岁，我都很不习惯于在人群里。不过我慢慢意识到，我需要去不断练习来获得自信。后来我成了一个受过良好教育的化学家，并在这个领域工作了30多年。越来越多的人会找我问一些技术问题，然后我开始花很多时间在会议演讲上。在90年代，亚太区每年有4-5个大型会议，我们需要做路演。我就是通过不断地重复，反复演讲，来建立自信，并从中吸取教训，做得更好。
I was very shy as a teenager, and I was very uncomfortable because I was taller than most women. Even in my 20s, I was still awkward around people. But I realised that, in order to gain confidence, I needed to practise. Eventually I became a trained chemist, and I have been in this profession for 30 years. I realised that a lot of people came to me with technical questions, and I started to spend a lot of time presenting at conferences. In the early 90s, there were four or five conferences around Asia Pacific, and we would then do roadshows. I started to build confidence by pure repetition, repeating the same presentation and figuring out what I could do better.
07
对想成为导师的女性，你有什么建议？
Irene：这个词有点让我受宠若惊，导师这个词太大了，这个问题也很大。我经常给到一些个人建议，我觉得关键在于每天都要接触很多人。最近我和一个男性员工进行了指导活动，他有一个女儿，除了关于他的工作，他也会问我如何带女儿。所以我们的指导有时候也包括对下一代的影响，不是吗？这其实是一个父亲角色的精神转变，他希望他的女儿未来能成长为像我一样的女性，以及像我一样投身工作和职场。
‘Mentor’ is a word that sometimes overwhelms me. It’s a big word, and it’s a big ask. I’ve been mentoring individuals, men and women, and I think the most important thing is that we, as mentors, reach out to as many people as we can every day. Here’s something interesting: my latest mentor-mentee activity is actually with a man. He has a little girl and, on top of working on his approach to work, he also asks me about how he should manage his child. It’s also about bringing up those little ones, right? It’s about having that mental change for the father, because he sees me as someone whom he wants his daughter to be like when she grows up and joins the workforce.
08
你目前遇到过的最大挑战是什么？
作为一个专业的化学家，我职业的起步其实是一个技术人员，但我很快意识到我可能更适合投身商业。我更喜欢和人打交道，而不仅仅是在实验室。当然，我也发现要从商没想象中那么容易，我花了差不多10-15年来完成角色转变。当你只有技术方面的能力时，你很难说服企业或老板去聘用你。
让我改变的这个机会很意料之外，在00年初，一家位于中国的外资公司找到我，他们是一家经营聚合物工厂的公司。这是一个看上去比较尴尬的工作机会，因为当时该公司正处于撤资中。没有多少人愿意进入，但我还是担任了这个职位，因为它使我可以从事更多的商业工作。所以我收拾行装，搬到中国，出现在苏州的工厂，并在那里呆了四年。一夜之间，它彻底将我从技术角色转移到了商业角色。所以我在机会出现时，抓住了它。
As a trained chemist, I started off as a technical person, but I knew early on that I will be better off in the commercial world. I wanted to spend time with people rather than being cooped up in laboratories. However, I soon learnt that the transition was not that easy. Moving to a commercial role takes at least 10–15 years, and it is difficult for companies and leaders to hire you, especially when you only have technical skills to show for.
What changed for me was an unexpected opportunity. In the early 2000s, I was approached by a big multinational Dutch company based in China, where they were operating a polymer plant. It was a curious job offer because, at the time, the company was in the middle of a divestment. Obviously, not many people wanted to go into a situation like that, but I took up the role anyway because it allowed me to move into a more commercial role. So I packed up, moved to China, showed up at the plant in Suzhou and spent the next four years there. It completely uprooted me from a technical role to a commercial one overnight. So I guess it’s about taking the opportunity when it presents itself.
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